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My living room shakes!
In order to make our house healthier, we tore up all the 50+ year old carpet in the living and dining rooms. We exposed an old pine subfloor. Because of it's age, we have had people think it was a hardwood floor. We had problems with movement when the carpet was there, but now that is gone, most of the perimeter of the living room to about 3-4 feet toward the center, has so much movement that it causes the furniture to rattle. I am truly afraid that items on the furniture is going to get broken by vibrating off. Is there a low-cost way of fixing this problem without replacing the entire subfloor?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Phil on -
This sounds like a joist problem. You need to either (1) need to shore up a few joists with lolly columns (those metal support posts that you see in people's basements), turned just so that they firmly push against bouncy joists (but no further, or you will push them up, causing your floor above to crown and/or cracking plaster walls.) or (2) maybe put criss-crossing boards between the joists to bridge them together. I don't know the term for that technique, but you see it in basement open ceilings a lot to help with bounces and squeaks. I am sure that the problem was always there, but the carpet masked it. Also, if your floor is 1" thick pine tongue and groove, which was a standard floor for old houses in the old days, I would not think of it as a sub-floor. Hardwood was a fancy topping for those floors, but the vast majority of pre-1900 houses used this as the only floor, esp. upstairs. I think of sub-floors as a layer explicitly laid to create an even base for a top layer. Others here will be more familiar with old house terminologies than I, so I might be wrong.
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Permalink Reply by Test on -
Phil that is exactly what I experienced also - and is just what the problem was. I had the luxury (i have no basement and house on block-pier/beams. Essentially, the fix was the same but i was able to gain access and doubled up on the numer of pier supports.
For the same prob on the second floor I added steel beams in the opposite direction underneath the joists. This may be a solution in this case that will allow you to keep the basement room. Of course the ceiling in the basement will have to come out regardless so you can gain access and see what the prob is for sure.
Also - one thing i have learned is that when they built these old homes they were not accustomed to the additional weight of everything that has been added to the house. I ripped out all added tile in the house, pulled out extra layers of drywall covering original wood ceilings.......imagine the weight of 400 square feet of tile, backer board under the tile and 2 HVAC systems that had been added along with a 50 gallon water heater (with water), freezer, washer, dryer and double fridge.....naturally these would not be in the living room, but you get the idea.
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Permalink Reply by Susan on -
I agree Phil. You are exactly right. We used both of your methods and now have no movement or squeeks. We have no subfloors, just the one inch thick oak tongue and groove floorboards.
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Permalink Reply by Julie Frein on
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Phil- what you say makes worlds of sense. The living room is over a finished room in the basement that has a suspended ceiling. I've noticed elsewhere in the basement where the joists have been bridged using what I think are 2x2's in the manner you described. Those floors don't have near the problem the living room does. Thanks for the info!
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Permalink Reply by Will Stanton on -
Julie- I would strongly suggest that you consult with a structural engineer experienced in Old Houses [may be hard to find] or at least an experienced Carpenter. This is not a project for an inexperienced old house owner. Also in most towns this work would require a building permit with plans "sealed " by an architect or engineer. To start, you will need to remove the suspended ceiling from this area. "Bridging" will not solve the problem.
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Permalink Reply by Karl Johnson on
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I would need more details but floor "shaking" is usually a framing issue and not so much sub floor
Question 1 is there any thing between the pine floor you see and the framing?
Question 2 are the joist below exposed or finished?
Question 3 what type of construction (brick pockets or wood frame)?
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Permalink Reply by Timothy Klaus on -
I have repaired several houses like this. Make sure the joists are not rotted, or have been eaten be termites, and I have also seen mold eat them away. But find someone you can trust to look at it.
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Permalink Reply by d boutwell on
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Many good responses here. I find that the best-case scenario would be to add some additional support under the middle of the joist span from below the level of this problem floor. This could either be done with running a perpendicular support beam under the middle of the joists, which would be held up with lally collums, 8' on center, or "screw-jacks" under it. If this cuts down on your open access in the space under the problem floor, another alternative would be to cut and install a temperary brace under the middle of each joist, taking the sag, or "crown" out of it, and then installing or "sistering" a larger joist on to the side of the existing joist, but it would be of a larger dimension. For example, many old homes have a true 2x6 floor joist, you could strengthen your floor significantly by sistering a 2x8 along side the existing joist or even sistering a new one on either side of the existing joist. If your existing joists are 2x8, sister a 2x10 on the side, and so on.This system works great if you are able to install a joist and not have to deal with and plumbing pipes or electrical wires running through the joists, getting in the way.
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