Removing packing peanut 'insulation'?

Yes, it's true. Our 1850 house is 'insulated' with packing peanuts... someone had bags and bags of them and dumped them down into the walls through the attic. They are through the majority of the plaster/lath walls, and every time we cut a new opening, they come spilling out. Window openings, electrical boxes, you name it...

They're horrible to contend with and I want to get as many out as possible. We are re-sheathing the first floor with drywall, so cutting exit holes for them is not a problem, but they're almost impossible to gather or sweep, and they clog the shop vac almost immediately... after they're out we are looking at a form of 'blow in' insulation ideally, so we don't have to open up every wall for batts...

I'm sure it's a long shot but does anyone have any similiar experience with this? It just boggles my mind. I'm guessing it's just going to be a tedious task....

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Permalink Reply by Jessica Lemmon on September 15, 2011 at 12:00pm

It might work. I have some of that to contend with as well actually. Though for that I might need to attach the 2nd shop vac to get the higher suction vortex happening. :)

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Permalink Reply by Jessica Lemmon on September 22, 2011 at 2:48pm

More progress on the peanut busting. My DH started opening up the kitchen walls last night and we had the vac going full force. He did make one design improvement... adding a stick as deep as the can into the bag. This keeps the bottom of the bag and the peanuts from sucking up to the lid as it works.

Last night we took 2 very stuffed bags out of less than 15 LF of wall... and we haven't finished yet. Overall it's working very well! But seeing the peanuts just pour out of the walls seems to induce a lot of swearing...

Hole sawed through plaster, lath and 1" heavy plank...

I had to let him have a turn...

One bag down... who knows how many more to go...

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Permalink Reply by KenK on September 22, 2011 at 7:51pm

Wow! These peanuts never cease to fascinate. They must actually be reproducing within the walls? Hard to believe the previous owner would go to such lengths (cheapskate/idiot) to use such a dangerous and inferior product. I have an observation - idiots cause good people 4x cost and 4x aggravation. Best with this project and hopefully soon you'll have worn those rascally peanuts down!!!

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Permalink Reply by Paul B. Boulden Jr. on September 27, 2011 at 3:48pm

Jessica,

Cool...and ingenious on the vacuum. I remember when my father did something similar in his woodshop 20 yrs. ago for dust control.

Where is your house approx. located? My wife and I have a "ca. 1850s" house in North Central Hanover, VA. Unfortunately, much of our interior elements (e.g. mantles, floors, moldings) were gutted as a result of a significant fire in the 1960s. As we attempt to restore our house, we're in search of contemporary examples, preferably in the Central Virginia area, but are not opposed to 'education'.

Paul B.

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Permalink Reply by Nina Smith on September 30, 2011 at 11:24am

This is so funny. I wonder what the R-value is. I almost considered doing something like this w/ vermiculite.

I would just like to caution you against blown in insulation. If you do some research about insulation (and not from the people who would be taking your money), you'll find that putting insulation in w/o a vapor barrier leads to very very bad things (especially blown in). The only insulation that does not require a vapor barrier is closed cell foam, which must be sprayed in (not available in pour-in). So it is literally impossible to insulate a house properly w/o removing the walls. I've attended a lot of preservation workshops and seminars and one thing we've gone over again and again is the damage done by added insulation, especially blown in.

What happens is, without a vapor barrier, moisture is still traveling into your walls where it now can no longer dry out or escape. It gets absorbed by the blown in insulation and makes it heavier. the insulation starts to sag and gathers at the bottom 1/3 of the wall cavity eventually (giving you no added benefit since the upper 2/3 is now un-insulated). So now you have basically giant sponges at the bottom of your wall cavity, soaked with water, getting moldy, and starting to rot out the wood. I've heard nightmare stories (and seen pics) of people who have had to remove the bottom portion of their walls to get this crap out, and they can just squeeze the water out of it, after just a few years. And if you do research about efficiency, you'll find that you only lose 10% of heat through the walls. For the cost of adding wall insulation, there's no return on investment. The most important thing is to put as much insulation in your attic floor as possible, and to seal any air leaks. Make the windows and doors as tight as possible. And there's your 90% of efficiency right there.

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Permalink Reply by Jessica Lemmon on September 30, 2011 at 1:21pm

May I insert a *heavy sigh* here?

Yes, you are correct. After a little research and mulling over, I think what we're going to do for now is leave the walls uninsulated, and insulate the attics. If it seems to be a big issue, we can always find a better product and insulate them before next winter. There are some of the foam based products that should also include an internal vapor barrier, but they're a little costly.

We're not pulling everything off the walls that is solid and sound, just to insulate a bit. Windows and doors are already new, and there is new siding w/building wrap on the exterior.

That being said, the peanuts are out of the kitchen!! I'm still going to remove as many as I can as we renovate, I don't like them lurking in the walls one bit. I have 3 full bags so far... anyone need packaging supplies?!? :)

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Permalink Reply by Franz on January 11, 2012 at 3:13pm

1, you can improve the efficiency of your penutolator by installing a longer tube on the vacuum cleaner side, something like 4" drain PVC with additional holes.

2, Be happy your "peanuts" are the older variety before they became environmentally friendly made from cornstarch. Mice love cornstarch peanuts.

3, since you're removing them, could you drop them at my place? They work really well in metal building ceilings.

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Permalink Reply by Jessica Lemmon on January 24, 2012 at 9:57am

I ended up taking about 4 bags out of our kitchen. That only accounts for two exterior walls. It does appear that the other walls don't have many left because they poured out when the house was re-sided (before we bought it). I'm hoping the worst of it is over though there are some strays and some cellulose floating around still upstairs. And I KNOW there are still bags of them up in the attic... ugh.

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Permalink Reply by Franz on January 25, 2012 at 4:12am

Upon taking a better look at your "peanuts" they are of a newer variety than I had first thought. Have you tried placing a few in a jar of water for a few hours to determine if they dissolve?